Wiki.jonathancoulton.com talk:Moderators

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Revision as of 16:41, 6 May 2008 by Agent Lex (talk | contribs) (→‎Creative Commons - +ShareAlike?: Removed archive link - somehow broken. Don't ask me.)
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Hi there! If you've got a JoCopedia-related question or request, please leave a note on this page (don't forget to sign your name by typing --~~~~ ) and I or one of the other mods will get back to you about it. Hope you're enjoying the wiki! --Bry 21:21, 29 April 2008 (EDT)

Some pages that appear to be superfluous

Hiya, dunno if we have a procedure for pages needing deleting, but the following appear to be redirects created when someone has moved a page to where it belongs and are not needed:

Cheers! ~ Percephene ~ talk contribs 01:47, 30 April 2008

Thanks, Percephene! I've deleted those pages -- the first two were not linked to from anywhere and were just redirects, the third I deleted but left the page to which it redirected (WikiProject:Hardware Vs Software).
As for long-term solution, I think this is the right way to alert moderators of pages that can be speedily deleted (i.e. obviously unnecessary pages) -- we still ought to have a real "vote on whether or not to keep this page" deletion policy for more difficult decisions. --Bry 22:39, 29 April 2008 (EDT)
I.e. JoCopedia:VFD "Votes for Deletion?" Could then also have a JoCopedia:QVFD (quick vfd) for things like this and situate it elsewhere, freeing this page up for real questions? Thats the setup on uncyc, and it works very well. Of course they get a lot more useless crap stub pages being created than we are probably likely to see but this just makes it a smaller less time consuming job for you guys. ^_^ Also thanks for the speedy bahleets! ~ Percephene ~ talk contribs 03:15, 30 April 2008
Yes to VFD and yes to QVFD -- while we're at it, I'd like a JoCopedia:RFC (requests for comment) -- not sure how to handle that. Wikipedia does it elegantly with a template to include on talk pages, which are then automatically shoved into the appropriate RFC list (e.g. Wikipedia:Template:RFCbio list) with a Python bot, Wikipedia:User:RFC bot. I might say it'd be easier to create a template that just shoves it into a Category:RFC, like our Template:Stub. --Bry 23:32, 29 April 2008 (EDT)
Awesome, I'll get started on the VFD's. Of course now we'll need criteria for warranting deletion... :P Can of worms indeed! They can be discussed there. ~ Percephene ~ talk contribs 04:10, 30 April 2008
JoCopedia:VFD and JoCopedia:QVFD are go. I have started some discussions on their respective talk pages about what we need to agree on/get setup in order for these to run smoothly. Let this serve as an official invitation to opinionise! ~ Percephene ~ talk contribs 04:42, 30 April 2008

Some questions about songs

Moving the questions I posed in the forum over here, since Talk pages seem to be where it's at. Sweet!

Where should alternate versions of lyrics should go? Some examples:

  • Linked version of the Flickr lyrics. I just put it at the bottom of the existing lyrics - does that seem best?
  • In wiki terms, it seems like the demo versions of songs listed under other projects shouldn't have their own page; they're not different songs, just different versions. Just wanted to test that before editing the Songs page to link the demos to the existing pages (or should they be redirects?). Anyway - if that's the desired route, how to handle alternate lyrics like the demo vs. released final verses of Soterios Johnson? Just add the additional verse and note its provenance?
  • I've been thinking that there might be some use to a non-ellided version of the Re Vos Cerveaux lyrics, which might be more readable by some folks. But clearly that wouldn't be the canonical version.

--Thomast 00:16, 30 April 2008 (EDT)

Thanks for all your work, Thomas! I really appreciate it. My thoughts on Re Vos Cerveaux/Lyrics and Flickr/Lyrics will be on their talk pages shortly (and I'll add them to Category:RFC), but I'm not sure where to put the demo discussion, so I'll leave my thoughts here for the time being.
I'm inclined to think that demos should have their own pages, but I can see both arguments -- I don't disagree that they're the same songs, but it's in some ways messier to have to combine demos. For instance, demos can be purchased separately, they have their own song-detail page in the Store, they (as you note) occasionally have different lyrics -- I don't know. I wouldn't be against combining demos and "official" releases, provided those (relatively minor) concerns are dealt with somehow. --Bry 00:51, 30 April 2008 (EDT)

Copying outside sources for Wiki Help pages?

As I was checking our original model, This Might Be A Wiki, I noticed a really extensive help section that had a What Is A Wiki page, a Basic Wiki Formatting and a few others. So I gotta ask ... what's the legality/formality/propietary/anything else-aty of chopping some of that up and using it here? --MitchO 22:38, 5 May 2008 (EDT)

Eep hopefully none, because I've sporked a lot from Uncyc. I've changed it to fit here though.
From my understanding, wiki's are free from copyright as detailed below the edit window. ~ Percephene ~ talk contribs 02:44, 06 May 2008
Mitch: Well, that help text's not original to TMBW, as a cursory Googling tells me. However, I haven't traced it to its source, which means I can't tell you that it's usable. We're using a Creative Commons license, and it's more than possible that that text was released under a different license, I'm not sure which. So I'd hold off on taking it directly -- if you must, link to their pages until we can write up our own version. Or else search for a Creative Commons-licensed MediaWiki help text... --Bry 22:48, 5 May 2008 (EDT)
Actually, according to TMBW's Copyrights page, the text is licensed under Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike license, which means we have to cite our source (in this case, TMBW), not profit from it, and JoCopedia must be under the same license. That is, ShareAlike means that anything derivative from that must also be ShareAlike, etc. That would be the catch -- we're currently Attribution-Noncommercial, but not ShareAlike. --Bry 22:51, 5 May 2008 (EDT)
Ugggh this stuff always gives me a headache. Can I lift text from Uncyc, change it and then reuse it here? ~ Percephene ~ talk contribs 02:54, 06 May 2008
Well, not that I want to get anyone in trouble, but in terms of the low level legality of some internet stuff ... honestly, if that text is in SO many places, I would think we'd "blend in" rather safely. --MitchO 22:58, 5 May 2008 (EDT)

Creative Commons - +ShareAlike?

(note: this discussion may, at some point, want to move to Talk:Main Page. Or it might not. I don't mind leaving it here for now. --Lex (talk - contribs) 16:35, 6 May 2008 (EDT) My thoughts exactly. Well, close to. Mine is more along the lines of if its not for profit, who cares? Lets just leave it at close enough ;) /me doesn't want to get a lecture on copyright again ~ Percephene ~ talk contribs 03:01, 06 May 2008

Pragmatically speaking, Mitch, no doubt you're right, but I don't think much of that as a policy. I'm not going to get on a soapbox and do the whole "JoCo cites Creative Commons as one of his greatest inspirations and he's jumped through hoops to keep aboveboard, copyright-wise, including taking When I'm 25 or 64 off his CDs, etc., etc." bit, but I wouldn't look too favorably on copying help text. Alternatively, we could change our license to incorporate ShareAlike, in which case we could "steal" away. --Bry 23:06, 5 May 2008 (EDT)

Quick question, can I lift text from Uncyc, change it and then reuse it here? If I change it, is it kosher? I don't know/get how all this CC stuff works ~ Percephene ~ talk contribs 03:37, 06 May 2008
I'm in favor of making the original JoCopedia content licensed as +ShareAlike. TMBW excepts those items whose copyright is held by TMBG, and all the lyrics pages have a copyright with date on them. Could we do something similar? What's the downside, real or perceived, to ShareAlike?
The original JoCopedia had the ShareAlike. I dropped it for two reasons:
  1. To mirror JoCo's own CC license
  2. Because I find ShareAlike to be unnecessarily restrictive on people who want to use the content.
This discussion is exactly my point with point 2. We can't use that content unless we adopt ShareAlike (or let the particular page on which we steal content be licensed as ShareAlike). I don't want other people to have to license their work with ShareAlike, or CC at all. Just my 4 pence ;) --Lex (talk - contribs) 16:35, 6 May 2008 (EDT)
Officially, we can't use any material from any site that uses Creative Commons with the Sharealike clause or the GFDL. That is, stuff from TMBW, Uncyclopedia, and Wikipedia is technically off-limits. However, for smaller things (templates and the like) that are behind-the-scenes, I doubt they'd point lawyers at us. And if they do send us a Cease-and-Desist letter, we can definitely remove the offending material pretty easily.
Help pages are getting into the gray area though. Copying their help pages (and other visible pages) may not incur their legal wrath, but it might seem to be in bad taste. Where possible, though, we should copy the heck out of the public domain MediaWiki public domain documentation instead. — Wesley | 05:44, 6 May 2008 (EDT)

This Day in JoCo box

Now that all of the This Day in JoCo pages are moved to their own namespace, the box on the Main Page should be changed to the following code:

{| style="border:1px solid gray"
|+ '''{{LOCALMONTHNAME}} {{LOCALDAY}}'''
|-
{{#ifexist: TDiJC:{{LOCALMONTHNAME}}_{{LOCALDAY}} | {{TDiJC:{{LOCALMONTHNAME}}_{{LOCALDAY}}}} | {{!}} There is no information for today. [[This Day in JoCo#{{LOCALMONTHNAME}}{{!}}Add some!]] }}
|}

(Sorry about the ridiculously long line; hope that doesn't complicate things too much.) Also, I say should instead of gotta-hafta-must-do because all the old Template:DATE_April_1 links just redirect to the new TDiJC:April_1 pages anyway. — Wesley | 05:44, 6 May 2008 (EDT)

Done diddly-one. Uhm, diddly-un? --Lex (talk - contribs) 06:06, 6 May 2008 (EDT)
This is where I get to do what I do best - come up with things for other people to do that I'm unable to do myself. Wesley, could you modify WesBot to delete the old Template:DATE_April_1 pages, and Lex, could you give WesBot deletion rights? Also, Wesley, would you mind sharing your code with me, including whatever changes you've made for each use WesBot's been put to? --Bry 07:46, 6 May 2008 (EDT)
I'll be able to give the bot deletion rights when I get home. Which will be... later. Needs more messing about with files on the server, which I can't do from work. --Lex (talk - contribs) 08:39, 6 May 2008 (EDT)
I'm trying to gather my bot knowledge over at User:Wesley/Bot guide, Bry. It's majorly rough, but I'll be sure to post my (ugly) code and stuff there. — Wesley | 09:12, 6 May 2008 (EDT)

While we're at it, can I be a pain and ask that my SOTD plan get a namespace also? And since I'm discussing that, some more opinions/input on my Main Page upgrade? And a pony. I'd also like a pony. --MitchO 08:43, 6 May 2008 (EDT)

Lex's made the SotD namespace already, Mitch. --Bry 08:45, 6 May 2008 (EDT)
Awesome. Where can I see that that happened? So I should just make them [[SOTD:May 6]] now? --MitchO 08:49, 6 May 2008 (EDT)
I don't know if it's case-sensitive -- if it is, the namespace is SotD. Lex mentioned the change at WikiProject talk:Song Of The Day -- also, you can see it's added to the list of namespaces wherever there's a dropdown menu (e.g. Special:RecentChanges). --Bry 08:52, 6 May 2008 (EDT)