Difference between revisions of "Template talk:SongDetails"

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== New SongDetails? ==
== New SongDetails? ==

Revision as of 22:53, 23 May 2008

New SongDetails?


I've whipped up a little infobox based on the current SongDetails, but with the Wikipedia Infobox look. As a bonus, it also gets rid of the bug where, on IE7, the lines from the headings run through the SongDetails box.

Since the SongDetails template is included from over 70 pages, I figure I'd just post about it here instead of replacing the existing SongDetails. Any bugs/problems? Suggestions?

Wesley 20:28, 28 April 2008 (EDT)

I like it very much, looks much more wikiesque! Great job! Haven't noticed any bugs with it but if I do I'll be sure to let you know here. ~ Percephene ~ talk contribs 12:42, 29 April 2008
I like it as well, Wesley. I would like to throw in a perhaps-radical suggestion: Remove the SongNav template from song main pages and do the links in the infobox. What do you guys think? (I've long thought the SongNav took up prime real estate on the main page that it didn't really deserve.) --Bry 21:21, 28 April 2008 (EDT)
I like the idea too. The current SongNav gets particularly annoying on narrower screens, where it's sometimes three or four lines tall. Look for changes in the infobox on the right as changes occur. (If you don't like the idea, though, now's your chance to object! :) Wesley 22:14, 28 April 2008 (EDT)
On second thought, look for changes over at User:Wesley/SongNav. I'll keep User:Wesley/Infobox as it is so we can compare later. Wesley 22:18, 28 April 2008 (EDT)

Infobox, second version

User:Wesley/SongDetails Here's Wesley's other version of the infobox, with song-nav included. (One thing I might note: I'd like to keep the albums as links, as they are on the original SongDetails template.) -- Bry 23:20, 28 April 2008 (EDT)

I totally missed that--thanks Bry!
Yep, here's the infobox with the SongNav links built in. When it's on the main page of the song, the song title at the top won't actually be a link. As before: bugs? suggestions? Wesley 23:44, 28 April 2008 (EDT)
Where'd my name go in my sig above? (I've added it back now.) My comments are at User talk:Wesley/SongNav, but to summarize, I'd personally want to keep the SongNav on the subpages (but lump it in with the infobox on the main song page), and I think I'd put the "related links" lower on the infobox. (Actually, I think I wouldn't put them anywhere because I'm too much of an oaf to do any of this myself. But I'm happy to harp on the fruits of other people's labors...) --Bry 23:49, 28 April 2008 (EDT)
Oops, sorry if I clobbered your signature there :S And I've just now read your comments here and in User talk:Wesley/SongNav, and here's the contents of my brain in convenient bullet form:
  • I saw, in Special:Whatlinkshere/Template:SongDetails, that Better/Videos uses the SongDetails template. That's why the sidebar has been made to work properly on subpages. It was only a few lines of code, and doesn't affect how the infobox works while on the main song page. More importantly, it's very easy to strip out if we decide for sure not to have the infobox on any subpages :)
  • I agree, having the Related Links section between the album art and the album name is a pretty bad idea. Having said that, I ask you all: should it go before or after the links to the blog and the store? (I'm a little partial to having them before the links, so I'll try that first)
  • Please, by all means, do harp! It's hard to see the bigger picture while writing code, even if it's just wiki-code. It's great to have input like this :D
Good catch re: Better/Videos - I'll take that template out in a moment. That makes sense, that it'll work as expected on song pages anyway. I'm okay with that, just wanted to make sure we were on the same page. I agree that the Related Links probably belong (well, at least they look better) before the jonathancoulton.com links. (And it looks as though I clobbered my own signature somehow. I don't know what I did. Oh, wait, it looks like I typed five tildes instead of four. Whoops!) --Bry 00:22, 29 April 2008 (EDT)
Actually, while taking out the template from Better/Videos, I've noticed that the SongDetails template also adds the page to Category:Songs. In the revision, maybe have that happen if BASEPAGENAME equals PAGENAME and all that? --Bry 00:27, 29 April 2008 (EDT)
It occurs to me that it would be a little bit more efficient for the server and (more importantly) a fair bit easier to read if the code for making the infobox work on subpages was removed. I've gone ahead and removed that code for now (since we can always revert).
User:Wesley/SongNav will always add the current page to the Songs category, but will result in a bunch of broken (red) links when used on a subpage now. So we shouldn't really need to say "only add this page to Category:Songs if it's not a subpage" because the box shouldn't be on a subpage to begin with, and should be removed. Does that seem reasonably...reasonable? Wesley 00:53, 29 April 2008 (EDT)
Template:SongNav is a different thing to Template:SongDetails. It basically works as follows:
  • Template:SongNav is that navigation bar, that has the different subpages. This one's put on all of the subpages as well, and it adds each subpage to its appropriate category, eg Category:Lyrics. It doesn't add anything to Category:Songs.
  • Template:SongDetails is the one it looks like you're trying to modify, and that one only goes on the main song page (and already adds the song to Category:Songs)
Is there some confusion here? Or am I being a dipstick and getting confused with what you're trying to do? --Lex (talk - contribs) 04:39, 29 April 2008 (EDT)
I think it's just misnamed, Lex. Or, should I say, I thought Wesley was planning on revising the SongNav, created the page, then decided to use it as a repository for more infobox (i.e. SongDetails) changes. Correct me if I'm wrong. --Bry 12:27, 29 April 2008 (EDT)
Exactly correct--sorry for the confusion. User:Wesley/SongNav is a modified Template:SongDetails with built-in songnav links. I knew it was confusing, but I never actually thought to move the page to a more sensible title. To clarify: User:Wesley/SongNav is only designed to go where Template:SongDetails is now. Wesley 16:13, 29 April 2008 (EDT)

New SongDetails is going in

Okay, here goes the changeover. If anyone sees any breakage or incompatibilities, please feel free to post a comment here (or revert the change altogether, then make a comment here). — Wesley | 19:05, 30 April 2008 (EDT)

Other details to include?

I've had some ideas for other information to shove into SongDetails, though it might require a bit of analysis. Narrative voice, rhyme, meter, key, time signature, etc. Some of these are likely to be ambiguous for some songs (e.g.time signature changing between verse and chorus). Any thoughts? If we're going to expand this, perhaps it's best to do so before we start moving other songs to the The Future Soon model.

I'd like to see more of these things, but I do wonder whether the template is the appropriate place for them. Some kinds of ambiguity are more resolvable than others, of course (we could just say "7/4 verse, 4/4 chorus", sometimes, but "2/2" vs. "4/4" or even "6/8" might be trickier). I could see a lot of arguments for having these things outside of the template and addable to the main body of the page on a case-by-case basis (e.g. if something's particularly unexpected).
(Rhyme, my particular obsession, seems difficult to fit into an infobox, especially since not every rhyme scheme is easily classified. For instance, I don't know if that trick where the rhyme falls in the middle of the line, with non-rhyming trailing syllables (e.g. "dolphins speak / spend my nights and weekends", "if she's pretty / what she's got at Citibank") has a better name than "enjambment," which really refers to a whole larger category of rhymes. Then there are the situations in which what the rhyme scheme is depends on judgment calls over line breaks, like the time signature example above. And there are certain things that I think are worth noting as a link between songs, such as the metrical scheme of Big Bad World One, Octopus, and That Spells DNA -- there are others that are slightly similar, Not About You being marginal, but those three are the closest. But I can't figure out how to put those things in a song-details box...)
To go even further off topic, we haven't really evaluated how realistic it is to move to a full The Future Soon model -- for one thing, it's by far the best documented song, the one played most often at live shows, a fan favorite (leading in the forums' Favorite Song List by a considerable margin), with multiple versions (demo and release) available online, as well as many videos and covers, so it lends itself to a lot more writing, which lends itself to a lot more subdivision, which is not always reasonable for most songs. Also, the other songs will not be Wesley's special favorite... ;) I've been putting it off, but all that discussion belongs somewhere (presumably somewhere not here). --Bry 01:39, 10 May 2008 (EDT)
I've been trying to (very slowly) move some other songs to a similar motif, in between other projects. Because of the simplicity of doing it, I've pretty much stuck to the Live Cover Versions and Miscellanea, but you can (hopefully) see a slow move towards the "Wesley formatting" there. Maybe once I've got a decent head of steam into my Main Page and Song of the Day, I'll take a crack at upgrading some major songs. Friggin' insomnia. --MitchO 02:04, 10 May 2008 (EDT)

I've updated the SongDetails template, without consulting anyone, to call the Template:Song Subpage Linker repeatedly -- a lot of the concepts were taken from TMBW, but the code is mainly original (with excerpts from MediaWiki help pages, etc.) The Song Subpage Linker will still link directly to the subpage if it exists, but if it doesn't exist the Linker will put a link that preloads some stuff (including the SongNav template and some basic formatting). It's easier to see in action than to explain, I fear -- maybe look at the "related pages" section of the infobox for Todd the T1000. --Bry 15:39, 11 May 2008 (EDT)